Jump to content

TIKI-TAKA

Bringing you the beautiful game


NeoBux

Premier League Clubs Lose £392m

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
27 replies to this topic

#16   Tomchin

Tomchin
  • Supporters
  • posts: 8,006
  • LocationBelgium
  • Fav PlayersMessi, Neymar, Suarez
  • SupportsBarça

Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:14 PM

Look, why don't u move to the US Coys? Here every club shares their revenue and there's a salary cap. The PL already share tv revenue pretty evenly, if they share more sources of revenue without the rest of Europe following the trend, it'll put a lot of clubs to a dissavantage towards the rest of Europe.

True, the budget of the top English clubs is already considerably lower than that of the 2 Spanish giants, mainly because of the TV-revenue in Spain that's not equally spread among the other Spanish clubs.

From ManUtd's point of view, it would be quite stupid to also begin to share the commercial revenue, when they already have a considerable disadvantage compared to Spain.

For the TV-revenue, you still can debate that it should be distributed equally (like it's being done in England currently), because without all the other clubs, there wouldn't be any exciting matches for the viewers to watch. However, I don't see how it would be reasonable to share the commercial revenue as well.


#17   COYS

COYS
  • England Moderators
  • posts: 7,168
  • LocationLondon
  • SupportsTottenham Hotspur and England

Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:45 PM

No, I think that he's saying that if your a Utd fan in Thailand and part with a 100$ of your hard earn money to buy a Utd top, each PL club should get 5$, although you support Utd and you're not buying counterfeit shirts because you want to financially support your club. I think there's a limit to revenue sharing. I'm not totally against it, but sharing revenue on merchandising makes no sense to me. should clubs share gate revenue as well now?[/b]


Yes, that's what I'm saying. Club's receive 100% of the profit for merchandise sold within their catchment area, but anything outside of that the PL gets the money and distributes it evenly.

I don't think that all revenue should be shared equally, just more fairly.

I acknowledge that the most successful clubs should be rewarded like they are in the Premier League, but not to the extent that cartels are created and the opposition cannot compete (like the Champions League revenue creates).

Look, why don't u move to the US Coys? Here every club shares their revenue and there's a salary cap. The PL already share tv revenue pretty evenly, if they share more sources of revenue without the rest of Europe following the trend, it'll put a lot of clubs to a dissavantage towards the rest of Europe.


I like the US system, it's better than the European system.

We can't ruin the English League just for 4 CL club's to compete with Real Madrid & Barcelona. Those two clubs will destroy La Liga in the same way that Rangers & Celtic have ruined the SPL. Left to their own devices, they'd ruin UEFA too.

Yet I'm not totally against it. You should present it more realistically though, as in say how English clubs Already share some revenue, why they should share more, how does it compare to other Europeans leagues, how they should share it, and how will it affect the league positively.


I'm not against FFP, but disagree with regulations on expenditure before the distribution of revenue is first regulated..

Edited by 0, 27 May 2012 - 08:05 PM.

Levy Out!

Posted Image


#18   COYS

COYS
  • England Moderators
  • posts: 7,168
  • LocationLondon
  • SupportsTottenham Hotspur and England

Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:50 PM

You realize there isn't going to be a chance in the distribution of revenue in England for a long time, right?


Yes, of course I do. There will never be a fair distribution of revenue in European football.

Once FFP comes in, smaller clubs will find that they are locked out once and for all, and that even with good management and a good academy they'll only ever be a good feeder club.

As I said, give it five or ten years. Once supporters realise that where there club is today it will remain forever more then attendances will fall dramatically, mark my words.

Nobody is going to hand over 1000 per season knowing that their club is locked in position forever more.

.
Having said that, I can not see a good reason for your preferred sequence of revenue needing to be regulated before FFP is introduced. FFP is a good ruling by itself. It places the onus on clubs to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor through good organization and sound business practices. So help me understand why you feel FFP cannot be introduced and have a positive effect by itself?


You would say that, you're a Real Madrid supporter.

The best thing the other La Liga clubs could do is boycott matches against Real Madrid & Barcelona until revenue is distributed evenly.

It places the onus on clubs to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor through good organization and sound business practices.


Oh come off it. Do you take me for some sort of half-wit.

You honestly think that if a mid-table club are well run as a business they can win the title?

Not in your lifetime. Not in 200 years.

Levy Out!

Posted Image


#19   Hououin Kyouma

Hououin Kyouma

Posted 27 May 2012 - 09:01 PM

I'm not against FFP, but disagree with regulations on expenditure before the distribution of revenue is first regulated.


You realize there isn't going to be a change in the distribution of revenue in England for a long time, right? It's already the most equitable among all leagues and an example that other leagues are looking to follow. Also keep in mind there is only a portion of revenue that the FA can legitimately regulate (i.e., revenue for participation in the league and revenue earned from broadcasting the league domestically and globally). This isn't the NBA where basketball clubs have similar stadiums, similar facilities, perform similar work, etc.

Having said that, I can not see a good reason for your preferred sequence of revenue needing to be regulated before FFP is introduced. FFP is a good ruling by itself. It places the onus on clubs to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor through good organization and sound business practices. So help me understand why you feel FFP cannot be introduced and have a positive effect by itself?


We can't ruin the English League just for 4 CL club's to compete with Real Madrid & Barcelona. Those two clubs will destroy La Liga in the same way that Rangers & Celtic have ruined the SPL.


I agree there needs to be a more equitable distribution of broadcasting revenue in la Liga. The current individual system is something that all clubs wanted before Real and Barca followed United's and the EPL's example of garnering a global following to boost broadcasting revenue and commercial revenue. Now that Real and Barca earn so much more than every one else, the gap needs to be narrowed to keep the league competitive.


Left to their own devices, they'd ruin UEFA too.


If we're going to point fingers at clubs for ruining anything.... truth be told though, it's the EPL clubs that "ruin" football for the rest of Europe, more than other clubs do. As I'm aware this is a sensitive topic, I want to clarify that this is not a post intended to wum and will elaborate on my thoughts. FIFA, UEFA and the English FA have had to make some major regulatory decisions in the last decade because an EPL club has tried to exploit a loophole, tried to do something wrong, or acted without limits:
  • Transfers. The EPL has the highest number of foreign players, ruining the clubs and leagues where those players have come from. - UEFA had to introduce the "homegrown rule" to regulate the number of transfers, and FIFA had to introduce the "solidarity compensation" rule which compensates all former clubs who have trained a player.
  • Opening up ownership of clubs to foreign billionaire owners. Some of these clubs spend well beyond their actual means on transfer fees and player salaries. In some cases, the money also does not have a proportionate amount of risk associated with spending it because of the deep pockets of the owners. - UEFA has had to come up with the FFP ruling to regulate this bastardization of football club ownership and counter it's negative effects.
  • EPL clubs suggested that league games should be played in countries other than in England, such as, in China. - a suggestion that was correctly squashed by the football associations of those countries and by FIFA.
  • EPL clubs suggested that leagues become "closed" with no relegation or promotion. This suggestion was put forward by the above mentioned foreign billionaire owners in order to protect their investments. Their purchases of EPL clubs has been based on the revenue stream earned from participating in the league. - a suggestion that was correctly squashed by the English FA, who deserve credit for not being swayed.
  • Poaching youth players from academies in other countries without paying a fee, thereby exploiting the difference in labor laws of EU countries. - UEFA needs to introduce a rule to stop this and I'm sure one is in the process of being developed.

Edited by 0, 28 May 2012 - 12:21 AM.


#20   COYS

COYS
  • England Moderators
  • posts: 7,168
  • LocationLondon
  • SupportsTottenham Hotspur and England

Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:56 AM

If we're going to point fingers at clubs for ruining anything.... truth be told though, it's the EPL clubs that "ruin" football for the rest of Europe, more than other clubs do. As I'm aware this is a sensitive topic, I want to clarify that this is not a post intended to wum and will elaborate on my thoughts. FIFA, UEFA and the English FA have had to make some major regulatory decisions in the last decade because an EPL club has tried to exploit a loophole, tried to do something wrong, or acted without limits:

  • Transfers. The EPL has the highest number of foreign players, ruining the clubs and leagues where those players have come from. - UEFA had to introduce the "homegrown rule" to regulate the number of transfers, and FIFA had to introduce the "solidarity compensation" rule which compensates all former clubs who have trained a player.
  • Opening up ownership of clubs to foreign billionaire owners. Some of these clubs spend well beyond their actual means on transfer fees and player salaries. In some cases, the money also does not have a proportionate amount of risk associated with spending it because of the deep pockets of the owners. - UEFA has had to come up with the FFP ruling to regulate this bastardization of football club ownership and counter it's negative effects.
  • EPL clubs suggested that league games should be played in countries other than in England, such as, in China. - a suggestion that was correctly squashed by the football associations of those countries and by FIFA.
  • EPL clubs suggested that leagues become "closed" with no relegation or promotion. This suggestion was put forward by the above mentioned foreign billionaire owners in order to protect their investments. Their purchases of EPL clubs has been based on the revenue stream earned from participating in the league. - a suggestion that was correctly squashed by the English FA, who deserve credit for not being swayed.
  • Poaching youth players from academies in other countries without paying a fee, thereby exploiting the difference in labor laws of EU countries. - UEFA needs to introduce a rule to stop this and I'm sure one is in the process of being developed.


I've never said the Premier League is perfect.

I disagree with the amount of foreign players in the Premier League, and the fact that PL clubs take youngsters into their accadamies from across Europe, as I said in the Arsenal thread. As far as I'm concerned, the latter is has a more detrimental effect on the game than billionaire owners ever do.

With regards billionaire owners we'll have to agree to disagree.

Given a choice between the same club or two winning the Premier League every season (as they would have done without third-party investment from Jack Walker, Roman Abramovitch & Sheikh Mansour) and billionaire owners then I'd choose the latter all day long.

Can't think of anything worse than a league which can only be won by 2 clubs. No thanks.

Levy Out!

Posted Image


#21   Cark

Cark
  • Active Member
  • posts: 963
  • SupportsBrentford Football Club

Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:21 AM

I've got no real issue with clubs making losses and then the losses being covered by their owners, but if clubs are incurring debt in order to compete then this is a problem.

I'd be interested to see the debt figures for Premier Zleague clubs.


How else can they do it?

United can exploit johnny foreigner out in Asia and make a killing, how else can clubs compete with that?

Posted Image
Germany 0 - 2 Brazil - 2002 World Cup Final


#22   COYS

COYS
  • England Moderators
  • posts: 7,168
  • LocationLondon
  • SupportsTottenham Hotspur and England

Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:54 AM

How else can they do it?

United can exploit johnny foreigner out in Asia and make a killing, how else can clubs compete with that?


They can't compete. Not now, certainly not under FFP.

As soon as television coverage of football went global in the 90s and 99% of overseas fans lent their support to 1% or 2% of clubs (the successful ones) it killed it for the rest overnight.

It'll get worse before it gets better. If it gets better.

Levy Out!

Posted Image


#23   EveryPlayerHereGetsSold

EveryPlayerHereGetsSold
  • Supporters
  • posts: 3,677
  • LocationManchester
  • Fav PlayersFernan, Robben, Kun, Reus, Messi, Silva
  • SupportsManchester City F.C

Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:55 PM

Yes I have, check in the old SP thread if its possible, i have over 10,000 posts on there, and a fair few was about this topic. As for small clubs not being able to compete, maybe so, but the discreptancy is only growing now. Why is it ok to make things worse if they werent perfect before. People should be trying to close the gap, not expand it.

And Ladotelli, dont over-exagerrate things. Utd's ticket prices, whilst being higher than they were pre-Glazer, are still much lower than that of London clubs, i wouldnt say its amongst the highest, even though they arent "cheap".

We froze our season ticket prices, yours are up 9% btw.

http://www.guardian....n-ticket-prices


What ridiculous ruling has come into effect this year that may force us to raise ticket prices I wonder ?

rsz_2545e713a9cagu.jpg


#24   francis

francis
  • Supporters
  • posts: 13,749
  • LocationMontrey'all
  • Fav PlayersScholesa, Evra, Fletcha, Berba, Vida.
  • SupportsUtd.

Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:05 PM

Force? LOL, thats the way a normal club SHOULD operate if it cant balance the books.
Posted Image

#25   EveryPlayerHereGetsSold

EveryPlayerHereGetsSold
  • Supporters
  • posts: 3,677
  • LocationManchester
  • Fav PlayersFernan, Robben, Kun, Reus, Messi, Silva
  • SupportsManchester City F.C

Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:07 PM

What books do we need to balance ? We have no debt whatsoever and an unlimited income stream.

rsz_2545e713a9cagu.jpg


#26   francis

francis
  • Supporters
  • posts: 13,749
  • LocationMontrey'all
  • Fav PlayersScholesa, Evra, Fletcha, Berba, Vida.
  • SupportsUtd.

Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:02 PM

Posted Image
Posted Image

#27   Hououin Kyouma

Hououin Kyouma

Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:27 PM

I've never said the Premier League is perfect.


I'm amazed that you would use the word "perfect" as part of your response.

Edited by 0, 28 May 2012 - 06:30 PM.


#28   John Flushing

John Flushing
  • Active Member
  • posts: 2,272
  • LocationState of New York.
  • Fav PlayersTim Howard and Clint Mathis.
  • SupportsMy Own Self Interests.

Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:56 AM

The financial figures portray a league of fierce sporting competition which relentlessly forces up players' wages.

Well if the athletes are so ridiculously overpaid then it's no wonder their employers are losing money right now.

CAP, CAP! CAP, CAP, CAP, CAP! CAP! CAP, CAP!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

"What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"