239 replies to this topic

[II Capitano]

Zin, on 20 May 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

Mane Garrincha fathered the idea of there's no such thing as anti-football back in the SP days.  I remember his epic debates with Philosopher.  So maybe you should read the forum a bit more often, instead of reading what you write.

Oh, so no one has defended it on TT (I wasn't a member on SP), so that was pointless. My point proven. Chelsea could have played attacking football, but there was no way they were going to survive had they done so, some of their players weren't even fully fit. Cahill and Luiz would have struggled immensely, and the protection in front of them paid off. Deploying this tactic might not show how great a team is overall, but it still does take a collective effort to execute. I've seen many teams who have used the same approach, but have come out with nothing. Justice for football is an arrogant (even patronage) way of looking at things, and it shows how bitter you are still about the loss. Whilst I do not think it doesn't determine who the genuine champion is, supporting any method of playing football is what I'll continue to do. Most forget that anti-football has essentially been played by every team. When a team defends in the last ten or five minutes of a game that's anti-football, but that's overlooked, possibly because it's not prolonged.

[Zin]

No. Your point isn't proven.  Mane didn't advocate this idea and drop it once he got here.  He still actively adheres to his argument.  I set the precedence going back four years, to show how unoriginal your ideas are.  It would take some imagination to think that someone would create something and then drop it because of a website change.

I haven't denied being bitter about the loss.  Your point?

The problem is that you say a lot, without actually saying anything new.

[Slow Show]

Il Capitano, on 20 May 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

...

Two things:

1) Your Islam, correct? As in Islam Amish? If so, you where on SP. If not, my bad.
2) Are you really comparing a team sitting back and defending for 90% of a game to try and scrape a result to a team sitting back and defending for 10% of a game to attempt to protect a result? If so, lol.

Edited by Slow Show, 20 May 2012 - 03:52 PM.

[Wrighty]

Il Capitano, on 20 May 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

and it's not like teams who deploy this "anti-football" tactic are using it on a regular basis

Chelsea under Di Matteo have, and they've been completely outplayed in virtually every CL match he's managed.

[Tomchin]

Ouch, a lot of hatred towards Il Capitano in this thread   I'm not going to enter the debate, but I just want to point out that he was one of the only non-Barca fans that defended us after our 2-1 elimination against Chelsea some weeks ago (unlike all the other ones who were just trolling around and making fun of Barca).  So from me he certainly gets some good points

Il Capitano, on 20 May 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Of course not, I agree, but to start saying "justice for football" and all that nonsense is a bit too much.

In Belgian newspapers they couldn't hide their disgust for Chelsea's win yesterday either, it was quite funny.  When I translate it to English, their headline was something like "19 May, the day that football died a little"

[Hamit Altintop]

Journalists need to celebrate diverse tactics rather than single them out for ridicule. If Chelsea had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets, they could play like Barcelona. But they don't.

[II Capitano]

Zin, on 20 May 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

No. Your point isn't proven.  Mane didn't advocate this idea and drop it once he got here.  He still actively adheres to his argument.  I set the precedence going back four years, to show how unoriginal your ideas are.  It would take some imagination to think that someone would create something and then drop it because of a website change.

I haven't denied being bitter about the loss.  Your point?

The problem is that you say a lot, without actually saying anything new.

You're really rambling now. You said that I took what Mane said from this forum (obviously didn't as you can clearly see the difference), then you say he "fathered the idea" back on SP, and now we're back to square one. Pretty futile (oh I'm being unoriginal againl).

That was my point, that you're bitter, didn't say you were in denial.

I don't care if you think that because you're the only one with this perception. The funniest thing was, after you said "justice" in the Chelsea thread, they ended up winning the Champions League, so thanks for that.

You have jumped the ship. You have gone from saying that

Slow Show, on 20 May 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

Two things:

1) Your Islam, correct? As in Islam Amish? If so, you where on SP. If not, my bad.
2) Are you really comparing a team sitting back and defending for 90% of a game to try and scrape a result to a team sitting back and defending for 10% of a game to attempt to protect a result? If so, lol.

1. Yes, but I didn't even register on SP, I wasn't a member.
2. It doesn't matter if it's the last ten minutes, it's contradictory to start abusing this method when it's being used by every team. By Cam's logic, teams should stop defending to hold onto a lead because it's the "wrong" way to play football.

DaGRvP, on 20 May 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Chelsea under Di Matteo have, and they've been completely outplayed in virtually every CL match he's managed.

That's in the Champions League, though you do have a point, but I'm talking about throughout the season.

Edit - Not going to attempt to reply to your post. You're going round in circles, and saying I'm copying Mane, when I have no idea what you're talking about, is your way of debating, I suppose. It's getting a bit tedious. Justice says it all, for the sake of his thread I'm not going to continue. (Directed at Zin.)

Edited by Il Capitano, 20 May 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[Zin]

Then having him come in here and complain about bitterness sounds a bit hypocritical, no?

Il Capitano, on 20 May 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

You're really rambling now. You said that I took what Mane said from this forum (obviously didn't as you can clearly see the difference), then you say he "fathered the idea" back on SP, and now we're back to square one. Pretty futile (oh I'm being unoriginal againl).

That was my point, that you're bitter, didn't say you were in denial.

I don't care if you think that because you're the only one with this perception. The funniest thing was, after you said "justice" in the Chelsea thread, they ended up winning the Champions League, so thanks for that.

You make absolutely no sense.  Yes.  Mane has said that there's no such thing as anti-football numerous times on this forum, long before you ever said anything.

And yes, it is unfortunate that Chelsea scored shortly after Muller's goal, as my justice was nullified.

Il Capitano, on 20 May 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

1. Yes, but I didn't even register on SP, I wasn't a member.
2. It doesn't matter if it's the last ten minutes, it's contradictory to start abusing this method when it's being used by every team. By Cam's logic, teams should stop defending to hold onto a lead because it's the "wrong" way to play football.

I'm sorry, where did I say that?  Are you stuffing words in my mouth?  Absolutely you are.  Where did I say that Chelsea are playing the right or wrong way of football?  Nope, you assumed what I meant and jumped on your soap box with an unnecessarily long, already espoused diatribe on "there's no right way to play football."

[Zin]

For instance, here is a sample post of his:

Mane Garrincha, on 12 September 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

I've had this discussion plenty of times in the Barca forum (usually with ronnierulez), and I have to be consistent; I believe that anti-footballl does not, and never has existed. Even if there was such a thing as anti-football, Barca would not exemplify it. Some of their stuff is mesmerising. Messi is the best and most exciting player in the world by some distance, Pique the best ball playind defender for years (also a a bit of a shit), Iniesta a maestro and Xavi the personification of all that is good about football (minus his whinging), the man is amazing.



I always prefer a more direct style of football combined with strong possession football. United have always tended to play a style of football similar to this and have always had my respect.

What I admire about Barca's style of football is not necessarily what is actually seen on the pitch, but rather the idea behind it. While I think the whole Barca philosophy/school of thought idea is a pile of shit, what I admire is Barca's will to dominate their opponent. Barca's style is pro-active, it forces the other side to play on Barca's terms. It is the most forceful, uncompromising style of play out there, forcing itself on it's opponents.



Your post is too fierce and therefore invalid. GTFO.

I could go on and on finding more posts of his nullifying your claim, but this is all severely off topic.

[Hamit Altintop]

My message to forum members who can't get along



Just kiddin'!

But yeah, next year I'm predicting Neymar to score the winner in the CL final for FCB...

[Mane Garrincha]

I am honoured that Zin has taken to defending my claims to patenting the anit football argument. As the quoted post should tell you, Ronnierulez was the guy whom I have most often had this conversation with on TT. It must tell you something however, when even someone such as I (who has always defended the right of teams to play such football) aM disillusioned with Chelsea's antics during this years Champions league. To play ultra defensive football against Barcelona over two legs is one thing, to sit back in a final and allow Bayern to be the only side showing ambition or proactivity is another alltogether. I don't quite think it is an injustice to football, but it was certainly something I didn't find admirable.

[.Mario.]

Geoff Peterson, on 20 May 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Second, I think we have to add a player like Higuain or Benz (I feel sick typing that.... but it's true).  A physical, fast striker with technical ability that can got on a hot streak in terms of finishing and goals.  A young player as yet unproven that would be willing to work his way into the team over time, but would offer a real option off the bench....   but who?  That's the tough part.  I'm really not sure.

Internacional's Leandro Damião.

[Super Frank]

DaGRvP, on 20 May 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Chelsea under Di Matteo have, and they've been completely outplayed in virtually every CL match he's managed.

outplayed in virtually every CL match?

Please..We had to win to by 2 goals against an in-form Napoli side and didn't we do it? and were we outplayed in that game?

Nowadays defending has become an under-appreciated and underrated aspect of the game and if any side exhibits it at the highest level to achieve their objectives they didn't deserve it.

Edited by Super Frank, 21 May 2012 - 04:37 AM.

[OGC]

We defended very well in Lisbon too, Benfica had nothing going. The line between being outplayed and setting up defensively is vague, most just mix the two up together. The fact is, our defending and clinical finishing won this for us (with a fair amount of luck, admittedly). Benfica had cross after cross easily cleared away. Bayern had 30 or so corners, NONE troubled our defense, we had 1, we scored from it. We had 4 or 5 shots against Barcelona over the 2 legs, 3 resulted in a goal but still no credit given to us. To call our win an injustice is a very shortsighted view of the entire campaign.

[Zin]

Super Frank, on 21 May 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

outplayed in virtually every CL match?

Please..We had to win to by 2 goals against an in-form Napoli side and didn't we do it? and were we outplayed in that game?

Nowadays defending has become an under-appreciated and underrated aspect of the game and if any side exhibits it at the highest level to achieve their objectives they didn't deserve it.

Also the only aspect of yall's game most of the campaign.