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Two Horse Race & Eighteen Teams Riding Donkeys

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#16   Resurrección

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:14 AM

New proposal for the distribution of the tv rights by the "G12"

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Derek

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.


#17   COYS

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:45 AM

New proposal for the distribution of the tv rights by the "G12"

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The totals look fairer, although I can't see Real Madrid & Barcelona agreeing to that distribution, can you?

If the other clubs were unable to agree a deal amongst themselves with Real Madrid & Barca, would they ever consider resigning en-masse from La Liga in a similar way that English clubs resigned from the Football League to form the Premier League twenty years ago?

Please can you translate the column headings for me as I don't speak Spanish?

Levy Out!

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#18   Resurrección

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:17 AM

Yes of course!

Basically the income of Spanish tv deals would be divided in three categories (the first three columns)

Ingresos partes iguales = equally divided income
Ingresos rendimientos deportivos = income divided based on performances (I assume position a team finishes in la Liga)
Ingresos audiencia = income divided based on audience. This one's very unclear to me. Based on the number of people that visit a match? The total of people that tune in to a game on tv? Unfortunately I was linked to this table only, without any further details
Total derechos España = Total of Spanish tv rights (the first three columns combined)
Derechos internacionales = International tv rights (the income from international tv deals would be equally divided)

Derek

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.


#19   COYS

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:01 AM

Thanks mate. Looks a much fairer TV deal to me. What do you think?

What is the general consensus of opinion in Spain with regards this proposal?

Levy Out!

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#20   Roger

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:20 PM

Would be great for the league. I'm not sure it will ever happen, but something close to this has to happen.

Roger

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#21   Jag

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:03 PM

I don't think there's any way that Barcelona and Madrid buy into that new format of distribution. According to the last numbers I saw, Barcelona and Madrid make 140ME from TV rights in La Liga. That would be a pretty huge paycut for them to take. I wouldn't be surprised if Barcelona and Madrid push for a new European Super League to be formed, and then leave the rest of the La Liga clubs to do what they want. From their perspective, there's a lot more money to be made in a European Super League than having to stick around in La Liga if the other 18 clubs might try and push em out or force em to take a distribution deal like this.

The problem with forming a European Super League, I think, is that the English clubs are happy where they are. The Premier League is bringing in a boat load of money for them and they probably don't feel that it's necessary for them to take such drastic actions. The German clubs probably feel the same way as well but I am no expert on their current financial situation so I can't say for sure. But I just don't see German clubs being in dire financial straits :P


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#22   francis

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:12 PM

What? The table for Tv income is on the last page. Utd make less than half of what Barca and Real do in terms of TV money. If sharing he TV revenue is something that would push real and barca into joining in some sort of European Super League, they'll be alone in doing so, because sharing TV revenue fairly is something every league (and big club) in Europe is willing to do.

And even with this reviewed sharing of TV revenue, Barca still make almost 200% more money than the team in the 20th spot. Utd make about 80 % more than the team in last position. Now im not sure about what they do in Spain, but in England, the PL also give the relegated teams whats called "parachute payments" over the next two season if they stay in Championship to soften the blow of relegation. If the top clubs in England can put up with of all this "sharing", la Liga meeting them half way is the least they could do.

Ridiculous.

Edited by 0, 15 September 2011 - 04:19 PM.

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#23   Jag

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:20 PM

It's true that it's kinda ridiculous but you have to look at it from their perspective as well. Barca and Madrid aren't owned by a single man or company, so for them it's not like a big money buyer can come in and start funding all their transfer/salary needs. And as we've seen in the last few years, Barca and Madrid spend quite a bit of transfer money which helps them stay at the top. A big chunk of their income comes from TV rights and if they want to stay at the top then they will do everything in their power to hang on to the TV rights the way they are right now. It's because of that reason there why I think Barca and Madrid won't relinquish their money very easily.


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#24   COYS

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:25 PM

The other Spanish clubs should call Real Madrid and Barcelona's bluff and issue an ultimatum that they either accept the new, fairer TV revenue distribution deal or the other clubs will form their own league without Real & Barca.

Let them join a super league if they want. It's doomed to failure anyway.

Levy Out!

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#25   francis

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:27 PM

To me its greed. Theyre making more money than Utd now, how much do they need. Its been made on the back of their league counterparts though, so its not really fair is it? Also, Liverpool, Utd and Arsenal dont have a sugar daddy owner. They have leecher owners. Believe me, these owner are not putting money into the club, theyre taking money from he club. There's no valid excuse for that level of greed, and in the end "one moral person = one vote"; it doesnt matter how much money Barca and Réal have, theyre still only two clubs out of (im not sure how many) in the Spanish football league. It has to change, and Barca and Réal have to accept it since theyre part of a greater community. If they dont, they might as well create a breakaway league by themselves and play 38 classicos a year, its the only game that matters in Spain nowadays anyway.
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#26   COYS

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:32 PM

It's true that it's kinda ridiculous but you have to look at it from their perspective as well. Barca and Madrid aren't owned by a single man or company, so for them it's not like a big money buyer can come in and start funding all their transfer/salary needs. And as we've seen in the last few years, Barca and Madrid spend quite a bit of transfer money which helps them stay at the top. A big chunk of their income comes from TV rights and if they want to stay at the top then they will do everything in their power to hang on to the TV rights the way they are right now. It's because of that reason there why I think Barca and Madrid won't relinquish their money very easily.


These clubs aren't a charity. The other Spanish clubs owe them nothing. If they can't afford to spend hundreds of millions of s a year on transfers and salaries then they're the same as almost every other club.

I've no sympathy for them at all. They're screwing the Spanish League for their own gain.

Levy Out!

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#27   Jag

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:35 PM

The other Spanish clubs should call Real Madrid and Barcelona's bluff and issue an ultimatum that they either accept the new, fairer TV revenue distribution deal or the other clubs will form their own league without Real & Barca.

Let them join a super league if they want. It's doomed to failure anyway.


To me its greed. Theyre making more money than Utd now, how much do they need. Its been made on the back of their league counterparts though, so its not really fair is it? Also, Liverpool, Utd and Arsenal dont have a sugar daddy owner. They have leecher owners. Believe me, these owner are not putting money into the club, theyre taking money from he club. There's no valid excuse for that level of greed, and in the end "one moral person = one vote"; it doesnt matter how much money Barca and Réal have, theyre still only two clubs out of (im not sure how many) in the Spanish football league. It has to change, and Barca and Réal have to accept it since theyre part of a greater community. If they dont, they might as well create a breakaway league by themselves and play 38 classicos a year, its the only game that matters in Spain nowadays anyway.


That is a romantic notion and all for the 18 other Spanish clubs but they need Barcelona and Real Madrid very much as well if they want to make money. If the 18 clubs do agree to even money distribution, there wouldn't be nearly as much money in it as compared to if Barca and Madrid being involved as well. Top Spanish clubs like Villarreal, Atletico and Valencia to name a few are already playing this season without any shirt sponsors. If they can't manage to find shirt sponsors who says some TV company will come in and put enough money into a league without Barca and Madrid? I think it might be suicide on their part. Sponsors know that the big money generators in La Liga are easily Barca and Madrid.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's a tricky situation for La Liga to handle right now and there won't be any easy solution to it.



These clubs aren't a charity. The other Spanish clubs owe them nothing. If they can't afford to spend hundreds of millions of €s a year on transfers and salaries then they're the same as almost every other club.

I've no sympathy for them at all. They're screwing the Spanish League for their own gain.


The same can be said about Barca and Madrid. They don't owe anything to the other clubs and in a capitalistic market, they are within their rights to negotiate their own TV deals to maximize their revenues. If the other clubs can't keep up then that's their problem to deal with. Of course, I don't totally agree with this mentality from Barca and Madrid but again, playing devil's advocate, they are within their rights to be greedy.


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#28   COYS

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:45 PM

To me its greed. Theyre making more money than Utd now, how much do they need. Its been made on the back of their league counterparts though, so its not really fair is it? Also, Liverpool, Utd and Arsenal dont have a sugar daddy owner. They have leecher owners. Believe me, these owner are not putting money into the club, theyre taking money from he club. There's no valid excuse for that level of greed, and in the end "one moral person = one vote"; it doesnt matter how much money Barca and Ral have, theyre still only two clubs out of (im not sure how many) in the Spanish football league. It has to change, and Barca and Ral have to accept it since theyre part of a greater community. If they dont, they might as well create a breakaway league by themselves and play 38 classicos a year, its the only game that matters in Spain nowadays anyway.


Exactly.

People keep banging on about Real Madrid and Barcelona being great teams - Barca the best of all time and all that - So fucking what eh?!

Where's the achievement exactly? So they fucking should be considering that their domestic league setup suits two clubs at the expense of all the others.

They're only where they are because for some strange reason the other La Liga clubs haven't stood up to them yet.

After the Champions League final everybody was talking about how Barca outclasses United. The fact is that United reached the final whilst adhering to fair Premier League TV distribution, whilst Barca (along with Real) are starving their domestic rivals to death.

But people don't seem to give a fuck about all this. Rather blindly throw superlatives at Barca.


That is a romantic notion and all for the 18 other Spanish clubs but they need Barcelona and Real Madrid very much as well if they want to make money. If the 18 clubs do agree to even money distribution, there wouldn't be nearly as much money in it as compared to if Barca and Madrid being involved as well. Top Spanish clubs like Villarreal, Atletico and Valencia to name a few are already playing this season without any shirt sponsors. If they can't manage to find shirt sponsors who says some TV company will come in and put enough money into a league without Barca and Madrid? I think it might be suicide on their part. Sponsors know that the big money generators in La Liga are easily Barca and Madrid.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's a tricky situation for La Liga to handle right now and there won't be any easy solution to it.


So that's it is it?

Barca and Real occupying the top two every season for the ever more just the same as the Old Firm do in Scotland?

If that's the case, why bother watching Spanish football if we already know the outcome?

Two teams of superstars thrashing a load of also-rans every weekend with no chance of the others catching up because they're starved if money to do so.

Spanish football fans have my utmost sympathy in that case because if I were a Spaniard there is no way I'd throw my money away paying to watch that.

If La Liga were a film it would be Groundhog Day.

Levy Out!

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#29   Becks

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:51 PM

oh bs. Look at the EPL, Man Utd wins pretty much every year.

#30   Jag

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:56 PM

The Premier League is hardly any different in terms of clubs ruling it recently. In 2003-04, Valencia won La Liga and Arsenal won the Premier League trophy. Since then, Barcelona (5x) and Real Madrid (2x) have won La Liga whereas in the Premier League, Manchester United (4x) and Chelsea (3x) have ruled the show. Of course, this season Manchester City pose a legitimate threat to that 2 headed hegemony but I think we'd all agree that it has been because of their recent investments from their new owners which no other Premier League team can compete with yet nobody really gripes about this fact. There seems to be some sort of illusion created in England that the Premier League is the most competitive in the world but based on the recent winners you could totally argue against that.

C.R.E.A.M - Cash Rules Everything Around Me (had to throw this in here :P). Manchester United and Real Madrid established themselves as the two richest clubs by the beginning of this millennium but since then, Barcelona has grown immensely on the global stage and it has allowed them to compete on every single front. They haven't had any magical owner come in with a boat load of money to save them, rather it has been because of their globalization and expansion ever since Joan Laporta became president. Chelsea, and now Manchester City, have joined Manchester United as legitimate powerhouses in England because of their cash-strapped owners. Arsenal and Liverpool don't have these mega rich owners so the cold hard truth is that they probably won't be winning the Premier League any time soon.


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